On this episode of Off the Clock, I’m joined by my friends Alan and Victor. They’re both multi-hyphenate creators, lifelong best friends, and recently collaborated for the first time professionally on the short film "Always, Most of the Time." Here’s some of what we talk about:

First question: What is the thing that has surprised you most about making a movie together?

• why I, as a white man, am frequently uncomfortable having conversations about race and what to do about it (hint: show up with curiosity, not prescriptions)

• the male loneliness epidemic and how to fix it? 

• the importance of a film editor – a great editor can elevate a mediocre film and a lousy editor can make a good movie terrible

• writing a story from the perspective of someone who wronged you and the deep empathy that implies

• how friends work through disagreements on a creative project without torpedoing the project or the friendship

• the origin of their friendship and a pushup contest that wasn’t

• culturally why men (and the unique perspective of black men on this issue) are frequently sizing each other up – also! New York vs Atlanta

• why for Victor and I that our marriage is like the easiest thing in our lives, but also how much work we put into it

• taking a “Hippocratic Oath” of friendship